This page will be updated regularly . . .
1:39 PM The meeting has started with prayer ....
Elder Wilson asked us to relax as we get started...
The meeting potentially goes until 6 PM
The voting will be by secret ballot.
Elder Wilson explaining the ballot process...
Explaining that translators are on hand.
People are invited to speak. There will be a time limit -- Two minute time limit was suggested.
Motion to increase speaking time to three minutes. Seconded.
Doug Batchelor asked if translators get additional time...
Voting on whether each speaker gets two or three minutes. Counting votes . . .
113 for three minutes
163 for two minutes.
Two minutes for each speaker passed. Those with translators will have four minutes. The motion carries.
Motion to cease discussion at 5:50 PM . . .
Thomas Muller from Denmark objecting to a time limit.
Lowell Cooper suggesting that we set a time for the voting body to determine whether to continue...
Vote on whether to end the debate at 5:50 . . .
Tom Lemon gives an overview of Unity in Mission process....
Some of the Unions were not in harmony with the San Antonio 2015 vote. He traveled to each division to discuss the problem. He claims he didn't encounter rebellion in his travels.
Explanation of Phase Two of the Unity Document....
Dan Jackson steps to the microphone. Says that the new document should not focus solely on women's ordination, but rather all policy violations. Elder Wilson affirms that clarification.
The 14-page Document is now being passed out.... Reconciliation & Adherence
On page 9 it speaks to non-compliance and its relation to voting rights on the GC Executive Committee:
14-page Document is being read aloud . . . .
3:12 PMDocument still being read....
3:31 Document reading is finished. Motion to accept is seconded.
G.T. Ng steps to the microphone, and clarifies the document. It was triggered by non-compliance to GC Session voted policy. Document is about how we govern as a church organization. If we vote yes, we affirm that we believe in the rule of law.
If I vote no, I believe that working policy is immaterial.... If I vote no it means that accountability doesn't matter.
Juan ? steps to mic. Says this document is akin to Isaiah's statement about "strange work." States he is for the ordination of women, but says his personal opinion is subservient to holding the Body together.
3:44 Karnick Dhoumetzian states that we act as fiduciaries and that duty includes obedience to the governing body that we represent.
This proposal puts 11-months in play for church subdivisions to come into compliance, and possibly another year to execute. That brings us to 2019.
The microphones are now open:
Christine Burt TED. Says that the document is too soon, and offers too little time to consider.
Mark Johnson NAD. Objects to the document.
Ron Smith NAD. Objects to document. Says document will impede the progress of his constituency.
Brent Burdick ESD. Objects to document. Places too much structure on church members. Proposes a one year moratorium on WO. A truce, with the status quo in every area.
Kwai Ansah Adu NAD. Praises God for this document. Urges members to unite behind document.
Lowell Cooper GC. Speaks against the motion. Says document needs more time to discuss and review. Says document stifles assent.
Randy Roberts NAD. Opposed. Said the document passed committee by too narrow a margin.
Elder Wilson explains the sub-committee process on this document. Says that the information was known only to a handful of people and one of them leaked private information. That information was misinterpreted and misused again. Elder Wilson acknowledges that he did not vote in the committee.
John Thomas GC. Says that the document disenfranchises young people and women, and represents a drive towards legalism.
Thomas Muller TED. Opposes the document. Says the GC didn't follow its own guidelines, according to last year's document. Elder Wilson says time was given for non-compliance to become pronounced.
Mandla Matshiyane SID. Has issue with a paragraph in the document.
Justine Ramos SSD. Supports the document. Asks how many parents have set rules and regulations in their home. Doesn't want her child to be selective on which rules they obey.
Edwin Gulfan SSD. Say this document is a real need in the church. Reminds us that this document deals with many other issues, and there are many other issues out there.
Werner Dullinger EUD. Expresses concern about signing document. Says there wasn't enough time to review the document. Recommends more time.
Elder Wilson clarifies that what is in the document is what a delegate/leader should be doing anyway. The document provides a self-initiated commitment to comply with the organization they represent.
Norbert Zens EUD. Says the document violates conscience. Agrees that we need something, but this document goes too far.
Kathy Profitt GC. Supports women in ministry, but the problem is not about ordination, but rather are we going to uphold the voted actions of the church we are a part of. We have fiduciary duty to comply. Satan is using WO to divide us. Motion to amend the effective date up to Spring Council. Motion later withdrawn.
Dean Coridan NAD. Says that the Reformation and the Two-horned beast of Revelation serve as a warning that we are moving away from freedom of conscience.
Robert Sjolander TED. Says that Sweden has only 2% of people that attend church. The Great Commission is needed to reach the 98%. Says people (postmodern) walk away from the church when they learn that we uphold distinctions between male and female.
Larry Moore NAD. Couple points. Says the document is "way too long."
G Thomas Evans NAD. Speaks against document. Says it is McCarthyism in the church.
Jan Paulsen GC. Says he has prayed that the Spirit would help us. Says the document makes the Holy Spirit's job harder. Does not see God's hand in the document.
Suranjeen Pallipamula SUD. Has concerns, that document means we don't trust each other. Says a person should have honor. Makes motion to amend page 9.
Clinton Wahlen GC. Supports amendment to working.
Bill Knott GC. Supports amendment to reword a paragraph on page 9.
Rick McEdward GC. Says paragraphon page 9 restricts dialogue.
Vote on amendment to reword . . . Passed overwhelmingly.
Dan Jackson NAD. Says GC is occasionally not in compliance of its own policy. Says document could be disastrous. Dislikes being lumped in with Conradi. Says he has no intent to split the SDA church. Says they all support Church policy.
Raafat Kamal TED. Says their small size causes them to be worked against sometimes. Appeals that because they are small, they should have special consideration. Says young people are negatively impacted by this discussion.
Maveni Kaufononga SPD. Was disappointed in the outcome of the GC 2015 Session. Will document bring about unity? Says no.
Mikhail Kaminskiy ESD. We usually keep silent in our Division. It is time to speak up. We must respect Working Policy and GC Sessions 2015. Supports the document.
Kenaope Kenaope SID. Says it is unethical to participate in a vote and disregard the outcome. Votes for the document.
Kwame Kwanin WAD. Supports the motion. Says it is needed to work with efficiency and accountability.
Jiro Moskala GC. Opposes document, says it violates trust.
Dave Weigley NAD. Speaks about Reformation. Says there is no Scripture that supports this document. Opposes it. Says document violates constitution bylaws. Makes motion to refer the document back to Bylaws Committee and remove it from the agenda.
Doug Batchelor. Says voting to refer back to committee is protracting a painful process akin to pulling off a BandAid one millimeter at a time.
Randy Roberts NAD. How much majority is needed for this motion? Answer = simple majority.
Brad Kemp SPD. Questions dealing with constitutional matters in this body.
Alex Bryant NAD. Struggling to understand implications of this document. Supports motion to refer back.
Nathasha Dysinger GC. This is emotionally sensitive material, and referring it back will not help us resolve the real issue.
David Trim GC. Says the Adventist way is to refine documents. Doesn't want to vote for it or against it. Favors referring it back.
Elaine Oliver GC. Favors WO, and supports referring it back.
John Freedman NAD. Says he doesn't understand the document, and is in favor of referring it back.
Jay Gallimore NAD. Says the document is not complicated, but addresses non-compliance.
Dan Linrud NAD. Favors to refer back.
Kenaope Kenaope SID. Needs clarity on the motion.
Zuki Mxoli GC. Says lay members would have settled this issue ere' now. Says these issues are taking way too long. Why don't unions just comply, or wait until another GC Session.
Jiwan Moon GC. Says the problem is that some are not humble enough to comply with the vote. Urges focusing on unity.
Dan Houghton GC. If it is referred back, shouldn't it go to the committee that produced it?
Short break - - -
David Trim GC. Supports referring the motion back.
Viriato Ferreira GC. Would like to vote on a document that ensures compliance.
Bob Folkenberg NSD. Has concerns about line 16-20 on page 9. Says our system is based on trust, and document does not foster trust. Recognizes need for compliance.
Kepsie Elodo SID. Calls question on motion.
Vote yes means to refer document back to Unity Oversight Committee.
Vote taken . . . still some confusion.
Clarity: Elder Wilson explains that "Some church units want to do things their own way. That has created this problem. The Constitution says we could disband unions, but we are looking for a solution. This document is the outworking of that solution. It is an attempt to bring compliance. To refer it back would not help us with our current situation."
Vote taken again. To possibly send document to Unity Oversight Committee. IF they refer it--it would go to this committee.
Second vote. Whether or not to refer back to Unity in Mission Committee.
Jay Gallimore - recommended to not refer.
Larry Boggess- recommended voting the document today.
Thomas Ocran WAD. Recommends voting for the document today.
Justin Lyons NAD. Says haste makes waste (27 -years?). Says irresponsible to vote on the document so quickly.
6:57 PMMotion to end debate. Vote is carried. Vote will be by secret ballot. Vote is to refer the Document to Unity in Mission Committee.
An attendee from last year describes it this way. "Last year was more passion, this year is more confusion."
184 votes to refer back.
114 votes not to refer.
298 total votes.
This means that the discipline document will be sent back to the drawing board, and delayed for another whole year. This doesn't solve the problem that is confronting the Church.